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Brainstorming - Descendent: Underground Development and Outreach

Community Outreach Marketing Suggestions Contributors Brainstorming

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#1
GunnyWPI1999

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This forum is an ongoing brainstorming on reaching out to the gaming communities about Descent Underground.

While pages 1-19 reflect our work during the kickstarter, this discussion continues to evolve and expand now that our game has a "green light."

 

If you have any ideas, suggestions, or questions, please add them to this discussion.

I promise that backers, moderators, and developers are listening and proactive in responding!

 

Thanks and See You In The 'Verse! ;)

 

[THE FOLLOWING TEXT WAS FROM THE INITIAL FIRST POST DURING THE BEGINNING OF THE KICKSTARTER]

 

I have a concern that the reachout for backers may be stalling. We need to cast a wide net to get the word out.

 

I think that our efforts in some venues, such as the Star Citizen community, has been very productive.

However, there are other venues, bloggers, review sites, etc. that would be interested, but do not yet know about this endeavor.

 

Let's use this discussion for people to list where they have reached out and what additional venues they would suggest for future posts/messages.

 

I've reached out on:

  • Postings - Star Citizen Forum (Subscriber Den)
  • Postings - Wing Commander Combat Information Center Forums (General Wing Commander Chat) http://www.wcnews.co...ced-game.27783/
  • Twitter - "#Descent: Underground is popular @Kickstarter! http://kck.st/1BtKgYC   #PCGaming @PCGamesN @Steam_Games @PCGamer @GamesBeat #ClassicGames"
  • Twitter - "#Descent: Underground is popular @Kickstarter! http://kck.st/1BtKgYC  #PCGaming #Entrepreneurship #StarCitizen #WingCommander #Kickstarter"
  • Facebook

 

I would suggest that we reach out to:

  • Game Bloggers/Reviewers (Not necessarily the established media)
  • Sci-Fi Bloggers
  • Emulator / Classic Gaming Sites

 

How about you???


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#2
LotharBot

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We've reached out to the major Descent groups -- the DBB, Descent Rangers, facebook groups (oldschool kali/kahn, D3, Descent pilots, etc.)  

 

I think the big response from those groups is being held back by certain concerns about game physics, pay-to-win, and the availability of classic game modes like single player, coop, and anarchy.  I'm hoping those concerns will be addressed soon.


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#3
GunnyWPI1999

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Another item we should brainstorm is how to rapidly and effectively change any misconceptions of the game that may linger after features are added/changed. Single player would be the obvious example here. It's not like we can send a SMS to all potential backers who are holding out.

 

Once something major changes, we can then implement the plan...


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#4
JimTheNinja

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Should show a more engaging trailer and pitch over at sites like IGN and Gametrailers. just a lone concept gameplay clip wont translate into eyeballs. Get them pumped with some more productions and dev video blogs


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#5
SGT-Craig

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Talking to a tech site now to get coverage. I've worked w/ them in the past.

Also created this http://www.duckandco...p=492650#492650  and another on hardforum


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#6
tron

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I think that the KS page has to understand even the most dedicated fans are going to spend 5-15 seconds looking at that page.  I'm reading comments of people who literally started the video, then left because they didn't like a 3rd person view as crazy as that seems, they didnt even scroll down to the other video.  Everyone wants immediate satisfaction ;) and older gamers don't understand the difference apparently between a video game trailer and in game footage or they choose not to...  So you want to examine what fans want most, and push that first on your best foot.  Trailer vs gameplay people are probably going to take gameplay.  

The trailer probably should have included the mockup FP view, lets say when the second drone turned around that would have been a good point.. or at least included it after the trailer with physics, trichording etc.. I think if that's added even as a mockup, and then put back out on the web this week it will generate further interest.  People want to see the feel of the game.  

The few people (sorry) who care so much about SP that they will not back a reboot until they see a full out SP plan you are not gong to be able to please until after the KS and after MP is in alpha and we have teasers for SP/Modding Tools/Community Map tools (because all of that was in the original KS page and people still complained.)  

At this point its a small group negatively commenting, so the only way to really push up the KS is to do a lot of social commenting on why we think this is worth it and then for eric et al to support that with targeted media of gameplay etc.., though at some point you have to address legitimate concerns (for instance gameplay physics) and then push forward with your vision.  I like the idea of opening up new pathways and the mine like maze feeling vision he is going for but I don't think it came across as that, because there is a lot of negative stigma for 6dof games.  (Huh I wonder why all the previous attempts failed and no one funds a 6dof anymore...)  I think the open development path is huge and it needs to be marketed more.  You won't end up with miner wars, 1) because everything was half built in that game anyways, but 2) because it will be much more open development process... I think that just needs to be reiterated over and over and over hahaha..  We just have to battle through the bias by continuing to comment and post :).  

Just my thoughts, they could be wrong.


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#7
Renegade-Shank

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There are all great ideas.

 

I'm not too concerned at thie time, all KS have a slow point just after the start and all the people who are waiting jump in. There will be more people coming, and there are people waiting to see how things go before they jump in.

 

@1658 Eric talks about crowed funding trends

http://descendentstu...-fort-of-wayne/


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#8
GunnyWPI1999

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There are all great ideas.

 

I'm not too concerned at thie time, all KS have a slow point just after the start and all the people who are waiting jump in. There will be more people coming, and there are people waiting to see how things go before they jump in.

 

Maybe. We should still brainstorm and make sure all bases are covered or ready to be covered.

 

When the time comes, we can then have people make sure each is taken care of.


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#9
LotharBot

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there is a lot of negative stigma for 6dof games

As I said to WingMan:

 

There are exactly two commercially successful 6dof games in history: Descent 1 and Descent 2.  There have been a bunch of disappointments (Descent 3 didn't sell well), total flops (Forsaken), games that went a totally different direction (Red Faction), and vaporware.  I think it's because D1 and D2 had beautiful, satisfying flight characteristics, and a lot of other games screwed that up to the degree that it wasn't enjoyable to just fly around -- in other games the ships were clunky or too fast or "felt like flying a paper bag" or the spaces were too big to hit anything or had too many obstacles to bump into.  

 

Nobody is going to play a Descent-like game unless it's fun to fly.  I'm not going to care about whether I can drill new tunnels unless it's fun to fly.  I'm not going to care if I can upgrade my ship unless it's fun to fly.  I'm not going to care how cool the robots look unless it's fun to fly.  I'm not going to care about how many players can be on each team unless it's fun to fly.  I'm not going to care about any of the other planned features unless it's fun to fly.  So among enthusiasts, it helps to emphasize the goal of the already-proven-fun D1/2 flight dynamics in well-designed environments.  


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#10
GunnyWPI1999

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As I said to WingMan:

 

There are exactly two commercially successful 6dof games in history: Descent 1 and Descent 2.  There have been a bunch of disappointments (Descent 3 didn't sell well), total flops (Forsaken), games that went a totally different direction (Red Faction), and vaporware.  I think it's because D1 and D2 had beautiful, satisfying flight characteristics, and a lot of other games screwed that up to the degree that it wasn't enjoyable to just fly around -- in other games the ships were clunky or too fast or "felt like flying a paper bag" or the spaces were too big to hit anything or had too many obstacles to bump into.  

 

Nobody is going to play a Descent-like game unless it's fun to fly.  I'm not going to care about whether I can drill new tunnels unless it's fun to fly.  I'm not going to care if I can upgrade my ship unless it's fun to fly.  I'm not going to care how cool the robots look unless it's fun to fly.  I'm not going to care about how many players can be on each team unless it's fun to fly.  I'm not going to care about any of the other planned features unless it's fun to fly.  So among enthusiasts, it helps to emphasize the goal of the already-proven-fun D1/2 flight dynamics in well-designed environments.  

 

You bring up a good point on how Descent was unique - it's "feel"

In Star Citizen Alpha, Arena Commander is doing that for the "Wing Commander" flight feeling.

 

How can that be portrayed in a Kickstarter phase? There is no alpha or beta. Can a flight feel demo be created? Would that help or hurt? There are always people who don't understand the limits of an alpha, let alone a pre-alpha. (Read the Star Citizen General Chat)


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#11
tron

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Lol it's the egg before the chicken argument.

 

Need money -> to make game

 

Need game -> to make money.

Given it 'looks' like they have the ability to mess with the numbers, UE4 uses that flowchart thing if I remember where you can just alter the number physics on player presses forward, backward etc...   If they are there I would just boot up D1 on one monitor and DU on the other and alter the numbers until it feels pretty darn close, then upload video on KS and $$$ :P.  

Ok its not that easy but you get my point.

 


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#12
StarlinVF

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No 6DOF love for Freespace?

 

I still stand by my earlier comment about many Descent fans expecting a verbatim reboot of D1 and D2, and hows its interfering with what they see in this game.   And with the number of reboots that feel flat, or went a different direction, its making a lot of people gun shy unless they see game play.  


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#13
LotharBot

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6dof refers to how many control axes you have.  Descent has six -- you can move forward/back, left/right, and up/down, and you can steer using yaw (left/right), pitch (up/down), and roll.

 

Freespace is 4dof.  It doesn't include left/right or up/down slides.


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#14
Void Stalker

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Should show a more engaging trailer and pitch over at sites like IGN and Gametrailers. just a lone concept gameplay clip wont translate into eyeballs. Get them pumped with some more productions and dev video blogs

 

 

The original Descent 3 trailer really grabbed attention, since it showed how "high tech" the new "fusion" engine was.  Perhaps the DS crew can put together an updated version that is in homage, that shows how far advanced the new game will be?  It will be a great visual tie-in too from the iconography of the previous games, to the new.  With a good voice over, even a 60 second clip could win a LOT of new people.  

 

Check out the D3 trailer/ad;

 

https://youtu.be/IHFazkfmBE4


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#15
Void Stalker

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Talking to a tech site now to get coverage. I've worked w/ them in the past.

Also created this http://www.duckandco...p=492650#492650  and another on hardforum

 

Have the link to the HardForum thread? I have been a member there for 10 years. Maybe I can add my 2 cents.


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-Tracy, Founder, The Tunnel Rats

"Just remember this - it is amazing what can be accomplished when no one cares who gets the credit." -Wingman

[font=arial]Note: Everything I post is as a fan of Descent: Underground except for official statements - which will be written in [/font][font=arial]Moderator Blue[/font][font=arial].[/font]

#16
JimTheNinja

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I gave Scott Manly a little comment to do a video for "Decent Underground" . maybe if some more people gave him a hint he will do it. That will get the KSP crowd


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#17
tron

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I think he usually waits till there is something a bit more he can chew on, but he may give a shoutout hopefully.


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#18
BeckAltarr

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I have offered to do interviews live with links to the recordings on our soundcloud.

Host open line community discussions and put up the recordings as well.

Radio Promo's.

Host banner add on our home page.

 

Not much more I can offer as a Online Radio. All for free.
 

No one has taken me up on any of the offers yet.


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#19
JimTheNinja

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I think he usually waits till there is something a bit more he can chew on, but he may give a shoutout hopefully.

Suggested he play a little of the original Decent (with the Rebirth mod)


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#20
LotharBot

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Suggested he play a little of the original Decent (with the Rebirth mod)

Use retro mod.  It's updated significantly from rebirth, and available using the Rebirth installer -- just check "retro".


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