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Wingmans Hangar Feedback/General Brain Dump


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#1
Flufball

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So, I wanted to just do a quick brain dump of some feedback/quality of life stuff based upon Wingman's Hangar. It's not specific to any one thing, hence putting it in general rather than any of the sub-forums (though if there is an appropriate one and someone can move it over to it, I'd appreciate it).

 

Shaman using ore to repair hull:

 

To me, healing is a primary mechanic. It should feel consistent across all game types.

 

The energy mechanic for healing adds a layer of complexity beyond the more conventional universal healing (Overwatch/TF2). It also provides multiple solutions to manage this resource, both on energy consumption (weapon choice) and recharging (charging zones vs energy drops). By adding ore, you add an additional layer of complexity. It also comes with a much smaller range of solutions and increased energy use in the form of mining.

 

This doesn't lend itself to fast paced game types (team anarchy/miner mayhem), leading to the ore aspect being ignored. As a result,healing ceases to feel like a universal mechanic and instead restricted to specific game types. For contrast, manufacturing tools exist as a secondary mechanic and thus the decision process of if I should mine for ore makes considerable sense.

 

I understand the intent and I'm happy to play for a while to see how it feels. I merely remain unconvinced and wanted to try to coherently and constructively explain why.

 

I've been avoiding making too many suggestions because of this. However, I think a reasonable compromise would be to suggest allowing the Shaman to use energy to repair the hull to 50%. This keeps the repair function consistent across the game types but still allows for the layer of resource management that ore brings.

 

 

Respawning Ships:

 

I think in a class-based team game the capacity to switch classes is particularly important. This includes survival. I understand the emphasis is on survival here but I think there are a few things that mean switching classes between waves makes sense.

 

  • Currently the server browser doesn't provide any information about class break down when connecting to a survival game, meaning I could choose a class that's inappropriate to the situation if I join in progress.

  • The scoreboard likewise doesn't indicate what class a new player is going to use, meaning I only find out after the fact. It's not always possible to communicate via text when fighting to late-comers that we need a healer.

  • I can kill myself and respawn as a new ship at the end of a wave.

  • At the end of each wave, I am magically healed and have my energy recharged.

All of the above mean that there are times where I actively want to switch classes. The immersion aspect runs afoul of both the suicide solution and the fact that I am magically healed at the end of each wave. It means any aversion I have to switching classes is somewhat undermined and thus instead I look at it from a gameplay perspective and think 'this would be useful'.

 

What I had in mind was simply a 'change class' option in the escape menu. In the case of survival this would basically queue you for a ship swap at the end of the wave. If you're after a compromise, similar to the Shaman, I would say let the player respawn but at 50% hull or something. You could say the magic healing comes from the nano-factories being repurposed to do so. Implying that they don't have enough capacity to fully create a new player drone, having expended it all on a wave of bots.

 

 

General bits and bobs:

 

  • A means to switch class without dying. You could limit it to specific zones (e.g. capture zones for Miner Mayhem and Conquest, Nano Factories for Survival etc), thus making players have to retreat to switch and presumably drop all their weapons in the process.

  • Indicating what ship someone is flying on the scoreboard.

  • Indicating the health state of someone's ship when healing them (and on the scoreboard too if at all possible).

 

Finally, the chorma lights stuff is really cool. I picked up a mechanical keyboard with RGB lights the other day and started giving it a go. Apparently my mouse has had AlienFX for the year that I've owned it and I've never realised, so I have that running two.

 

That said, why does my (roccat) mouse light up green on the menu, whilst my (corsair) keyboard lights up orange/yellow? And why, when leaving the game does my mouse change to a single red light on one side? Very strange!


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#2
Wingman

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Good comments, we are having similar discussions about main functionalities behind the scenes too...

 

We will also continue to monitor as things like healing requiring ore are in test phase....and are still subject to balance.

WM


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#3
Stormprooter

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Quite hyped here about the news on last WMH (2016-12-16) about forthcoming changes/improvements to joystick controls - looking forward to more on this.


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#4
Flufball

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Some more feedback.

 

Blinken - love this but upon leaving the game, my Roccat mouse gets jammed onto whatever the last colour displayed was. I have to turn AlienFX on/off in the Roccat settings to get the normal lighting running again. As previously mentioned Corsair Keyboard displays Yellow/Orange on the menu whilst Roccat mouse displays green. Finally, the Corsair Keyboard requires SDK mode on, though I'm completely new to this whole light-up keyboard stuff so that may just be normal.

 

Changing Team/Drone - There was talk of requiring an extra button for this. Honestly, you could simply put it on the escape menu. Most source games do this, as does Rocket League. I made a quick mockup of a menu with both change drone and team options;

 

menumockup.jpg

 

 

I'd also suggest changing 'Exit' to 'Exit to Desktop', it's not vital but just provides a little extra clarity.

 

Design wise, I'm still not quite sure where you stand on changing teams/drones. At the moment the game feels like an arena shooter, a genre which generally allows team switching and class changing. On the other hand, there is the tech tree coming into the game. I'm not quite sure I understand if you're going the battlefield/call of duty unlock route or if it's going to be something more akin to World of Warships where you are locked into the team when the game starts.

 

Shaman:

The subject of tech trees take me back to the Shaman. Having now played it a bit, I think I more or less understand what you're trying to do. Intellectually, I don't dislike it and it makes a degree of sense for a game featuring a tech tree, where your upgrades can influence how you heal.

 

That said, I think my original concerns remain the same. Right now the game and the types it has are just too fast. The trouble is the major team-game types are all races. There's very little downtime or slow moments to allow you to gather resources. As a result, one of the primary healing function is largely ignored. Ironically the one game that does have an ebb and flow that would cater to this is survival, which doesn't (currently) feature any ore.

 

I understand what you're trying. I'm not at this stage suggesting you should revert back to old type healing. What I would actually like is to see some sort of changes to game modes to provide slower moments, similar to the waves in survival. I am struggling to come up with useful examples, as I am unsure what would work without disrupting the balance game types currently have.

 

That said, if the game retains the arena-shooter style, then I would say move away from ore consumption on healing because as it is, it's not so fun.


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#5
defcon_x

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There's very little downtime or slow moments to allow you to gather resources.

 

YES. This.

 

And yet, I don't think that's wrong for the multiplayer. We have had numerous complaints about the game feeling less exciting in pace and too drawn out when hitboxes were ship shape and so on. I personally liked that because it allowed for more "resource gathering" moments. And even those were difficult.

 

The problem is where the game's drama is.

 

If the constant drama is combat, you're going to be doing nothing else. And the combatants want kills. And to feel the immediacy.

 

But the drama could be much broader than that — who is achieving larger missions, gathering resources and so on. If those things could feel more rewarding, and I think they will when rewards and tech trees are in place, plus a lot of polish to make the game feel more arcade and jolting and less like an iPad simulation of a simulation (though I think there may be over-emphasis on creating a "non-unsettling" Virtual Reality experience and not enough attention on making the non-VR experience just as exciting in different ways. You almost have to make two different games if you are making a VR and non-VR experience of it).

 

Anyway, so there is a kind of conflict in demands between arena fans (who want changes like fewer shield orbs, extremely balanced weapons, classic game play, "fairness", tiny clever maps and so on) and the potential for the game to be more, better, larger in scope, broader dramas, exploratory, Alice-in-Wonderland kind of gameplay etc.

 

Single player, I think, will answer a lot of the potential. Presently, it seems the game's multiplayer is being forced to be quite narrow by arena demands.

 

Miner Mayhem seems a bit more balanced and better executed than the first version of Corporate War for example because gathering and delivery is instantly achieved. Because the game is tuned to the combat drama rather than anything else.

 

Healing is cool, but there really isn't anything to keep alive because the ships could get damaged too quickly, and they can source their own power ups. Arena rules seem to prevent high levels of health, efficient and fast enough healing tools ... more fun power ups besides weapon collection.

 

Manufacturing is cool, but the only exclusive thing it makes is the turrets; concussion missile packs are pretty plentiful and so are shield and energy. Turrets are a great addition and I think that's why people are excited for them. But again, what drama does it most play into, even when you might equip them with different things? The arena combat and area control. (Which is fine if that's all you want.)

 

Ore fuser is awesome, but man is it a conservative tool. Is it even possible to make anything effective with 2 cubes? Even when you could spit out 10 cubes it was just barely worth spending the time doing it. And the physics for them isn't there. They just float in space like rather nonsensically.

 

It just seems like the game is so conservative with everything out of fear of balance concerns, instead of letting loose with the playground it really should be. Each drone should be able to disrupt the game significantly, and not just with combat. Each of its roles needs to have the same dramatic weight as the combat role, no? In other words, i would say we need to not be afraid of challenging combat and frustrating the arena enthusiasts.

 

If I can take out a ship with my weapons, the Shaman's healing should be able to save a ship and really fast. As fast as killing happens. As fast as killing happens, I should be able to spew concrete into a tunnel and block it up rather than carefully painstakingly stacking 2 cubes that are blown to smithereens in ones of seconds.

 

The effective tools are Typhoon's spin attack, Panzer's energy shield mechanism and those are because they are combat oriented and are not shy about disrupting the balance by exercising those drones' inherent powers.

 

Warlock's de-activator is awesome, but the steal tool could be about ramming and getting the top weapon of the enemy 75% of the time rather than concussion missiles. And it should be able to do these things really fast. Really quick. Really disrupt the combat strategies.

 

Its door opening tool is awesome, though. Now that throws a kink in things in a fun way! (When door security actually is more of a concern)

 

Strategy is thrown out the window when combat takes care of every solution. It's just a variation of shooting the doors open and shooting switches on or off. Weapon-based.

 

There should be a lot more play at this stage in the experimental builds. A lot more power given to non-combat roles if you are serious about making them worth using.

 

I think maybe too many things like the Shaman and Warlock tools and the mining for all the ships are based on "spend some time doing this so combat can leak in unfairly" when there is no time to give. Instead of "click/fire at the right time to change the situation". I'd make an exception for the door unlock tool, which makes sense to take time.


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